"Making Money with Mindset" - Thinking About Practice Revenue the Right Way (feat. Monica Capelli)

In this episode of "The Dental Domination Podcast," Dan Brian and Monica Capelli discuss the critical role of mindset in dental practices, particularly in relation to billing and collections. Monica shares her extensive experience in the dental industry and emphasizes the importance of leadership, financial awareness, and creating positive patient experiences. The conversation highlights how a dentist's mindset can influence their practice's success and the overall satisfaction of both the team and patients. The importance of cultivating a positive practice culture, empowering teams, and building strong patient relationships to enhance financial success in dental practices is also discussed. This wide-ranging conversation emphasizes the need for effective communication, training, and a supportive environment to foster team morale and improve revenue collection. The discussion also highlights the significance of rewarding performance and creating a mindset focused on growth and patient care. This episode is a must-listen for any dentist owner interested in developing the mindset to support future practice growth. Learn more and take action via the show notes.

Transcript

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All right, welcome back to the Dental Domination podcast. I'm really excited today. My name is Dan Brian by the way. I'm the co-founder over at Dentalscapes. We're an online marketing agency for dental practices specifically. Not here to talk about that today though. We'll save all that boring crap for another day. But in any case, I am really excited to bring back on a very special guest and a friend of mine, Monica Capelli. She is the CEO and founder over at Rev Systems. They are doing billing and collections for dental practices. And Monica has such a great perspective on this. I found in that she knows what she's talking about. Let's just put it that way. She's been doing this for 28 years, 28 years in the dental industry. Her husband, like mine, is actually a practicing dentist and she's the former practice manager for his office. So Don't mess with Monica. She knows what she's talking about. And what I'm really excited about is that, and I was actually on this show just yesterday. So, so watch out. Monica has just launched a brand new podcast for dental practice owners called the Dental Business Hub. And I will put the link to that show also in the show notes and do yourself a favor and check that one out because it is really, really cool. A lot of really insightful conversations with true leaders in the in dental industry. Monica, I think you're doing a better job of booking guests than even I am. Not withstanding not withstanding the fact that you are here today. So thank you so much for joining the show. And before we get into our topic today, and I'm very excited about this too, because we're going to talk about something maybe a little bit different when it comes to, you know, outstanding claims, collections, AR, we're going to be talking about mindset today. and how the mindset surrounding your practices, billing and collections can really impact the bottom line of your business and your overall performance. And, and you know, let's be honest, your personal satisfaction in actually running this thing. So I'm really excited to get into that. But again, I've been talking for way too long now, which I happen to excel at Monica. What can you tell listeners about yourself? Rev systems, your experience and And yeah, where are you coming from and what got you into this business? Hey Dan, first of all, thank you for having me on again. I just love talking to you. Thank you for being a guest on my podcast as well. I love just, you know, banging heads with people who are in the industry because we all have so much to share. And every time I've met with you, I've learned something, which is really amazing. So thank you for that. My background is just, as you mentioned, I've married to Dennis, been married to him for almost 38 years, practicing in private practice in Colorado 20 plus years in dental industry either as a practice management consultant as the practice manager or as the owner of a billing company All of those things have combined over years and give me I think a kind of unique perspective It's not often that you meet the spouse the office manager the insurance biller and the consultant Kind of all in one package but I'd love the fact that I have gotten to talk to so many dentists across the country. It's given me a kind of an insight into what's going on underneath the surface of the dentist. What, by the time the dentist hires a consultant, either they're moving in a direction they want to go and want to get there a little faster, or they're feeling like they're circling the drain and you're looking for someone to help them bail out. Revenue is going to contribute. to one of those two situations, whether or not you're collecting it is going to be the bottom line, whether or not you feel successful as a dentist. And I hate it when I run across dentists who are just feeling like losers or feeling like, don't know what to do next, or I've been working my tail off and I'm not getting compensated for what I do. It's a very common problem. Yeah. And you and I have talked about it. mean, And really I talk about it and my husband talks about it with practically everyone he's in dental education now and when you go to dental school you are not prepared at least in my opinion properly to run a business and and That is no fault of the dentist. I mean, it's just it's just the reality And so I think a lot of people, know, you and I were talking about earlier a lot of practice owners You know start their practice get going. They are clinically proficient and they enjoy what they do But it's a different story maybe when it comes to the finances and billing and collections. And so I love your take on how you can sort of shift that dynamic and look at things maybe a little bit differently and put in place the right systems and processes and audits to make yourself maybe sleep at night a little bit better. will make you go to sleep if you're not a nerd about it because it sounds boring, but it's really not boring. I have, can I, can I interject with one really random question that I've been just sitting here dying to ask. So you're from Colorado, which is awesome. And you probably noticed I said Colorado because I'm from the Midwest and I may be ignorant, but can you, said Colorado. Can you settle it for all time? The proper pronunciation of this state. I lived in Colorado. I'm from Philadelphia. So I'm saying that East Coast, I think in Colorado, they say Colorado, Colorado. It's how you, you distinguish. Yeah. feel a little bit better. But yeah, that's really interesting. I used to spend summers out there and I never really knew what I was saying. So whatever. Thank you. I think they'll accept you no matter what. It's okay. It's a really cool state. Yeah. Yeah. was going to say it's a very libertarian state, so I would hope they would accept me regardless. Anyway, I'm sorry to distract you. So let's talk about mindset, though. You were saying, I mean, it is a huge stressor for a lot of dentist owners. What can they do about Well, you know, there's a lot you can do about it. First, you can work on your own mindset, get your own head right, right? You're the leader of a team and you need to realize that as the leader of the team, you set the tone for the whole practice. So if your mind is not feeling great about the money, how can your team? And then if your mind is right, but your team is not on board, that speaks honestly to your leadership. It's a hard truth, okay? Yeah, I mean, that's another thing that you don't go to dental school for is to really be a leader. And I love that some of these modern dental schools, by the way, I'm to put in a little plug here for my husband's. He's at UNC at Chapel Hill, and they're really doing a lot to try and integrate leadership training and adaptive leadership training into the curriculum. So anyway, that's just I'm just speaking out a little bit there. you know, I am a fan of dental schools because they're doing what they're supposed to do. They're training dentists to pass their boards so they can deliver exceptional care to their patients. On the flip side of that, that's such an intensive program that there's so much to do and so much to learn that you can't teach everything. It's kind of up to the dentist to get this on their own. It's nice that UNC is incorporating the leadership. That's hugely important, but so are, you know, the nuts and bolts of being able to read your numbers and know what reports to run and things like that. That's why they want honest, that's what Monica Capelli and Dan Bryan exist for. Exactly and there's a there's a you know, a plethora of office managers out there who have your back then if you just need to know that But I know that sometimes you know, I I consult with a lot of clients as I said And it's not unusual for the dentist to feel kind of like either He doesn't have the what it takes to be the leader of the practice. He's just not aware of those numbers He's passed it off to someone else Yeah. that leads to a feeling of uncertainty. There's no way you can feel confident as a business person if you don't know your numbers So when I start consulting with people and it doesn't matter to me if they're consulting clients or if they're billing clients I start with the same thing is to talk about your headspace around money If they're a billing client they get an audit of their outstanding claims, which most dentists haven't done in the ages age And I don't mean just pull the record pretty scary once they see that number. Sometimes sometimes I run into clinics who are doing it really well, but in Fortimer I would say I would say that's rare. Okay well, that's good. That makes me feel better. No, it's rare that they're doing it well. Yeah. And then I also like to, for my consulting clients, we do an audit of their outstanding claims and credits. Okay. Because that's another area where dentists have tons and tons of unpaid credits out there. So, one of the reasons I like to audit and get the idea of those numbers is because it helps you learn how to talk to your team about what's going on in your practice. If you don't know your numbers, you can't really have wholesome conversations with your team. And to me, it's a team, right? So we're all in this together. And once you look at those numbers, most of the time, the numbers aren't in, you know, if they're not in the 90th percentile or so with their collections, the dentists are not happy because they have overhead, sometimes 65, 70%. It's unusual unless you're very, very well managed not to be in the upper 60s and overhead. If that's the case and you're not collecting in the 90s, you don't have very much margin in your practice for team, for yourself. for equipment, for CE, for anything. You're just living paycheck to paycheck. And so when I'm framing that problem for you, just want the dentists who are listening to your podcast to understand that they're not alone. That's the majority of the dentists that I work with, especially to solo practices. But there's a light at the end of the tunnel. So let's talk about it. It starts with revenue. Yeah, I do too, because you're not stuck forever. You just need to know what to do. It starts with your head. So once you have the right attitude about revenue yourself, about the fact that you deserve it, you deliver exceptional service, exceptional patient care, you're good at what you do, you made an investment in your career, you deserve to get paid for the work you do. That's what the dentist needs to understand. Then you also deserve to have a team who's behind you and supporting you in that. That again is up to you. You have to hire the right people. You need to be knowing what you're looking for as far as personality traits. And then you also have to lead them with compassion, enthusiasm, empowerment to keep them excited about helping and supporting the business and their team members. When the business wins, everyone wins. And you know, it's not unusual for people to feel a little bit intimidated when they talk about money. Most people have a story about money somewhere in their past, right? But I think you can overcome that by showing them the positive aspects of money and how it's possible to have a good relationship with money. When I'm at the dentist or at any office or any business, I don't want to feel like I'm just completing a transaction. If someone's like, that's $1,500 giving you a credit card, that's not a good experience for me. I don't want to feel that they just came for my credit card. Right. we are solving a problem. No one hands over that credit card unless they feel like you've addressed a problem that they have right It's about value. It's about delivering vip value to your Patients so that when it comes time to pay they're not kicking tires They're not wishing they had gone to the discount place down the street and you feel good about asking for the money because Your team should feel good about asking for the money because they know and trust the dentist and they know the quality of the work and they know how life is being transformed. So to me, that exchange of money for service or money for a product is a buy-in to transformation. That's a different mindset. Yeah, now I feel like, you know, we might as well be in a therapist office here. But how do you get how do you get and that's a that's a compliment, by the way. How do you how do you get a dentist who does not feel self confident, does not feel like maybe they're worth everything that they actually are? How do you get them to that place when their mindset maybe isn't in the right place to begin with? Yeah, there's some therapy involved with that and I'm not a therapist. Yeah, it's hard because dentists are pretty beat up, you know, as far as I'm concerned in the medical community, as far as how society views them. Nobody loves the dentist. That's something people love to say, but the reality is you do love your dentist. You love being out of pain. You love having a brilliant smile. You love getting that interview because you happen to have a full rack of teeth. You know, there are things we love. It's kind of important. And the dentist and their team need to understand that we are problem solvers. Okay. We're not just transactional. are building relationships with our patients. We're building relationships with each other. You spend eight to 10 hours a day in that office with these people. This is your crew. This is your tribe, right? So those relationships might need some work in the office as well. As long as your primary goal is customer success, you know, taking care of your patients and taking care of your team and each other. you're going to already radiate a different thing. When you walk into a dental office or any business, you can tell right away if the people like being there. You can feel it. Yeah. And that sets the stage. Even actually before you walk in, the stage is set by the phone conversation. But can I share a little story that happened to me real quick? So I walked into an office, I moved to North Carolina, as you know, looking for a new dentist, because my husband didn't come with me at that time. We're not broken up. I was just coming to take care of the grandkids. I needed a dental group. what, I no longer allow my husband to treat me and that's just because he has, yeah, well, I won't say that, but family treating family can be tough. My husband is my favorite dentist. I'm just going to say it right out. tell you clinically speaking, in terms of quality, my husband is my favorite dentist also, but I, yeah. I had to have a dentist and what happened is I was eating popcorn and got something stuck up under my gum. You know, one of those little horrible husks. And I went first to the general dentist. I called my husband. He said, you probably need to go see a periodontist. And I was like, I'm to go to the general dentist first. So I go look for a dentist. I walk in the door and the front desk woman looks at me, doesn't smile, doesn't greet me. And she goes, we don't take Medicaid. come on. No, that happened. That happened right here. And I was kind of taken aback because of course there's other people in the waiting room and I didn't feel treasured or VIP at all. Then another lady comes up and says, I really apologize for that. She's just very busy. Can I take care of you? And I tell her, yes, I'm a cash patient. I'm not on Medicaid. The other lady hears me say cash patient and she finally gives me some attention. Her attention was, well, you know, like, do you have periodontal disease? You know, I was like, what? Yeah, probably, you know, crossing our fingers. I'm so sorry that that happened. That is so and yeah. girl. know what, Dan, I'm a big girl. I'm voting, you know. Well, to me, it points to the team dynamic. And this is what I'm saying. The dentist is the leader of the practice. You set the tone. It's top down. And so when you're changing your mindset around revenue, I'm sorry, a Medicaid patient is a patient. And I bet the dentist would like, if they took Medicaid, to see the Medicaid patient. You treat them like people, too. We treat a cash patient. Everyone deserves respect when they're in your practice. And so this is where it starts with the mindset with your team. The next thing, Dan, you're going to have to edit this. Sorry, I have to blow my nose one second. all good. You're all good. Sorry about that. No, I get hot and steamy when I talk about that one too. but then so when you're talking to your team and you're trying to lead your team, one of the most important things you are is you're setting the tone, you're setting the expectations, how to treat the patients, their relationship with money and how to collect it. But if they just feel like money is transactional, they're not going to be, they're hourly workers. They don't care if you collect or not, right? So you have to help them understand that the financial reward follows genuine, respectful care of the patients, right? And that is how we build our raises. That is how we build our bonuses. That is how we build our compensation. It's around happy patients. And so to me, every single time a patient walks in that practice, it is an absolute opportunity for the team to create a joyful experience for the patient. Hard to do, hard to do in the dental practice because they're coming in around pain for the most part, right? and people are coming in really, really nervous and amped up. Anxiety worried about the fees or in pain, but you know what if you greet the person with joy and respect They will almost reciprocate reciprocate some level of that. It starts it starts on the phone Is the smile of your voice when you're on the phone? Absolutely here a team member who doesn't want to be there So your team needs to understand that we're making a difference and that when we're collecting money, it's part of the whole patient experience Right, and it's a joyful exchange of goods and services for a fee Yeah. So leading from the top down, we've said, and sort of instilling this culture within your practice. Obviously it's about modeling. It's about, you know, demonstrating that attitude to your team members in how you talk and how you interact and engage with patients yourself. But what are some other tips and tricks that you've found in both running a practice and also consulting with practices that can help really get the team focused and in that right mindset? part of the daily huddle or or what works best in your view. Well, there's a lot of different components in that. The daily huddle is definitely a part of it. Instead of just going over, you know, who owes me money or who's coming in or who canceled it, da da da, take that moment, take a few moments to have a team affirmation, reaffirm your vision for your practice every day. It could be something as simple as like, like I just said, every conversation is an opportunity to uplift the patient. It could be, we're here to serve. It could be my work matters. Yeah, really emphasizing those core values, you know, at every turn. start every meeting. And sometimes if you have like a list of core values, you could go around and everyone gets a chance to say something. And that tells you that they have memorized it because you could call on anyone randomly. They don't know who you're going to call on, but everyone has to have them internalized so they can say it. I'm sorry. It's really important. I was going to say, you know, we, we don't do dental consulting necessarily, although we consult on marketing, but we do dental marketing and you can absolutely. And in fact, we talked to clients about core values because you can absolutely tell, uh, even in the marketing, the messaging. the communication, there's an ethos that surrounds a practice and you can tell it emanates from everything. And those practices that are guided by those core values, you're talking about making a difference in terms of running the actual business. It matters in marketing. It matters in recruitment and retention for certain. I mean, it's everything. And patient retention and team member retention both. Right? And another thing is you have to gauge how your team is reacting. So for instance, after you run, like say your outstanding claims report or your credit report or your overall patient AR report, and you see that there's a lot of money that's missing. When I run a outstanding AR report, for instance, I'm looking at the zero to 30, how much money is not being collected at zero to 30. That's not necessarily claims. Once you separate the claim from that, whatever's left is the money that the patients are walking out the door without paying. That tells me there's a team member who's going, you know, we'll wait and see what insurance pays or the patient who's going, you know, I forgot my credit card. And then you'll never see him again. You know, you're setting up an AR situation. It's going to just grow and grow and grow. In other words, you're telling the patients you can pay me whenever you feel like it. Okay. That is not something that you want your front desk to ever communicate. Mm-mm. have to give them the training, the verbal skills and the support that they need in order to be able to be good at the job that you've hired them to do. No one's born knowing how to collect, right? So it's up to you to provide the, know, set the vision, set the expectation, make sure they're trained on it, provide accountability, which can be a morning huddle thing. Hey, how much did we collect? How many credit cards did we get on file? You know, and then reward. Reward comes from doing an exceptional job exceptionally well So, you know you have there's some investment that's that's required from the practice owner for sure because he has to Invite he or she has to you know invest in that training and support for their team But when the team feels trained and supported guess what it frees them up to do their job So your work kind of becomes a place. There's a greek term Therapeutia is used usually to describe home, but I think if you're going to spend eight to ten hours a day in a practice, it should be a place of therapy also. You should feel happy and proud to be there. And you shouldn't be dreading any aspect of your job. So that's why I said, of like restoring joy is something you have to invest in your mindset, in your communication skills, make sure they have the tools to collect, make sure they have a lot of payment options. When you're having conversations with the patients, if it's just like, that'll be $750 and then I don't have it. please. credit card piece or, oh, I didn't know I was gonna have to pay today. There's a lot of breakdowns in communication that can happen or you can have tight communication. the visit, mean, the patient needs to have some sort of expectation and be aware of what the expectation will be. mean, surprises are the worst thing in dentistry, and that's both clinical and also on the business side. It's absolutely the worst thing. And so your financial team needs to be confident at talking about the money at the treatment planning stage. Sometimes that needs a little bit of training, but I like, I hate to say sales, but anytime you exchange money for a good or service, it's a sale. Are they closing those sales? Are they helping the patient find a comfortable way to fit whatever they're doing into your budget and into your lifestyle? Does the patient understand the value of what they're getting? Have you understood it? Have you had that conversation? Tell me about what's going on in your life. What drove you to make that decision today? And talk to them and let them sell themselves. They're the ones that are buying, right? It's not a hard sale. And when the patient feels heard and respected, whatever is going on in their life, then you're more likely to be in a relationship with you where they don't want to cheat you, they don't want to stiff you, and they want to pay for the service that you're getting. Yeah, and I mean, think I think I love I love the idea of the provider and the care team as advocates for the patient. I mean, and that is how you need to position it, because at end of the day, you want what's best for them. They, course, want what's best for them. And there's a real difference in terms of how you approach a conversation when you're an advocate versus just a provider, you know. And also there's that relationship building, which means referrals, good reviews, and also happy patients. So there's a lot that goes on, but if you really want to start collecting, it starts with relationship, right? You have to set the parameters and the expectation on the hard part, you know, in your policies, et cetera. It needs to be written, it needs to be signed, it needs to be accepted, but you also have to set and build a kind of a... a relationship where the patient knows that you are their friend and that your team is on their side. So when you have someone who's got a really big case and they are really in need, maybe it's a full mouth restoration. It's something that's almost, you know, cost of a house and you're having that conversation. can't be just give me your credit card. has to be, wow, what's, what are you going to feel like once you have this beautiful smile? Are you getting married? Are you going on a vacation? You know, what's going on? Yep. then it's how can we make this a comfortable transaction for you? And I'm a fan, honestly. You know how we always ask for Google reviews? Okay, Google reviews are great. Have you ever asked for a review of your financial coordinator's interaction with the patient? Interesting. Yeah, peace and experience. patient that has an interaction, especially if it's for major servers, maybe set a benchmark of say $2,500 and up, something like that, 2,500 and up. You want to send a text to that patient right afterwards while they're still fresh from the appointment and ask them, hey, this is Dr. So-and-so. We're committed to making financing easy and enjoyable for our patients. Did Jennifer help you? And then you have the narrator. Did she help you explore all of your options? And then you give them three choices. They can reply with a thumbs up, which means Jennifer did an exceptional job. They can do with just a plain face smiley, which means, ah, you know, it was somewhat helpful, but not really, you know, or a thumbs down, which means I needed more support and I needed more guidance. This is a wonderful metric for you to take back maybe weekly, depending on how much treatment planning is being done, maybe monthly, you have to just figure that out for yourself. But I would go back to Jennifer or whoever who's named on that text and I would say, this is the review that you got and let's celebrate the wins. And then if there are places where the patients didn't feel supported, we want to say, what could we have done different with this patient? How can we have, yes, how can we have supported this patient in a better way? So what you want to do is make sure you're celebrating the wins and let those team members who are doing the hard work of collecting the money, let them know that they are a valued part of your team. This starts changing the mindset around the revenue. When you have wins, it changes your mindset, right? You start feeling good about what you're doing and you start paying attention to what you're doing. So. you have to, I mean, you have to uplift the team. You have to give them a reason to get out of bed every morning and it can't just be about the paycheck. it's gotta be folks, the practices that work, you know, as you said, you can sense it when you walk in the door, folks working at a practice like that, find the work. meaningful and fulfilling and there's so much that the leader, the dentist owner, him or herself can do to set that tone and make sure that that's the case. Yep. like I would definitely set up a reward system. your treatment coordinators are doing a fantastic job like that and you're getting a lot of thumbs up, give them a reward system. We had a system of 1%, anything over $2,500, 1 % on a closed case. Yeah, it's only $25, but boy does that add up. Right, they're doing three or four or five of those a week. That's that's some serious money if they're if you're closing full mouth cases That's even more Right, so make sure your team is rewarded for the good work they do and then you get off the tread This this is an you know kind of a side to the conversation But we don't want them coming with their hands out every year asking for automatic raises If you start tying compensation to performance the performance improves right? So bonuses and things like that also help change the mindset around revenue because now they understand that what they do impacts their life and their ability to live the life that they want. Yeah. So there's lots more. We only scratched the surface of one of my favorite topics, revenue. mean, we just came up with 10 more topics for 10 more shows easily. But Monica, I can't thank you enough for coming on today. Thank you as always for sharing your expertise and your experience. This has been so valuable for me and I know it will be valuable for our audience as well. What is the one key takeaway though you want to leave folks with as it pertains to mindset when it comes to the finances of running the business? I think that the number one thing to do is, first of all, I have to say too, because one starts with loving yourself and the other is love your team. Yeah, I love that. three, learn your patience. Your team, you know, when you approach your job from a place of high power, integrity, love, joy, and abundance, it absolutely trickles down. So start with your mind, work on your team, work for your patience, and money flows. So good. Monica, where can folks find out more about RevSystems, more about your consulting if they want to get in touch with you? And can you also, you know, give folks the scoop on your new podcast? thank you for asking sure. Well, first of all, to reach out to me at rev rev hyphen systems.com. That's my web page. I have a really great blog on there with lots of tips as well that the dentist might find interesting, but my podcast is my is sweet, by the way. I really like it. Yeah. Yeah, I try to pack a lot in there. So I'm glad to know that it's applicable. I was wondering about that. But also my podcast, I'm super passionate about my podcast. It's called the Dental Business Hub. And my goal is to help dentists connect with leaders in the industry who can provide insight into the business of dentistry, which we just talked about dentists don't always have. but also who can give tips or insights or solutions that might help you with particular issues that you're having. So sometimes it's a product, sometimes it's a service, sometimes it's just a talk about your own mindset like we just did today. But it's a place, it's a hub. A hub is a place where you plug in for energy, right? So I want dentists to plug into that podcast and be energized about the business side of dentistry. That's my vision. we talk about or you talk about marketing like we did yesterday. So everyone go and check that out. you want to know something marketing the other linchpin to all of this. If you don't have paper, you don't have a business either. I just have to, I just have to say one thing. You are brilliant. I learned so much from yesterday. you. Yeah, no, I love talking to you and yeah, I mean, maybe you'll have to come by sometime and co-host one of these shows. It would be so much fun. Yeah. you know, I think we're on the same page. We're trying to help dentists live their highest and best and do the highest and best for your patients and your teams. And that's, I can't think of anything I'd rather be doing with my life actually. neither. neither. really, well, it's just like we were talking about in the practice. It's fulfilling, it's meaningful, and you gotta find that. You gotta find where you can plug in and yeah, I mean, speaking of the hub, you gotta find where you can plug in and where you can do the most good for good people. And that's really what we're all trying to do. And I know you're doing the same. I mean, it's doing good things. Absolutely. Doing good things for good people. Monica, thank you so much for stopping by. will definitely be doing this again at some point in the future because like you said, we just uncovered like 10 things that we can get into for an hour each. So anyway, thank you so much for stopping by. If you enjoyed what you heard today, listeners out there, thank you so much for stopping by. Please take a moment and on Apple podcasts or Spotify or YouTube, wherever you're listening to this show, please take just one second and leave us a five star rating. Share a few words if you don't mind it is the best way for us to connect with other dentists and practice managers That we can hopefully help so I would really appreciate that check out Monica's business check out rev systems Her podcast the dental business hub all of that information is going to be in the show notes So check that out as well, and we'll see you all next time. Thanks so much Monica All right, we'll see ya